High Temps and Molten Steel at Ground Zero
Solid sources for this can be found here.
The idea that extremely hot pieces of steel-- actually steel pieces with extremely hot sections-- would damage the hydraulics of an excavator machine ignores the concept of conductivity of heat and dissipation of heat through air.
Moreover, clearly, whatever hot pieces of steel were pulled out, were UNDERNEATH other debris, and weren't just lying on top of the pile. Thus, while the overlying debris pile may have been quite hot, this hardly means that this heat would damage a machine with metal treads crawling on top, since the extreme heat was UNDERNEATH other debris. The upper debris layer was no doubt cooled by ambient air.
There is also the fact that the "fuming" ground at Ground Zero is perfectly explained by high heat in the pile.
In general, I now think the evidence for high heat at Ground Zero is extremely strong-- and something that was covered up by the authorities. While the "plane attacks" and "tower collapses" can be explained as key parts of the 9/11 psy-op design, it makes little sense that high heat and red hot steel at Ground Zero would be a designed part of the psy-op.
The simple fact that so many witnesses have indicated high heat and molten steel, while there are so few pictures of this, indicate a cover-up.
The idea that extremely hot pieces of steel-- actually steel pieces with extremely hot sections-- would damage the hydraulics of an excavator machine ignores the concept of conductivity of heat and dissipation of heat through air.
Moreover, clearly, whatever hot pieces of steel were pulled out, were UNDERNEATH other debris, and weren't just lying on top of the pile. Thus, while the overlying debris pile may have been quite hot, this hardly means that this heat would damage a machine with metal treads crawling on top, since the extreme heat was UNDERNEATH other debris. The upper debris layer was no doubt cooled by ambient air.
There is also the fact that the "fuming" ground at Ground Zero is perfectly explained by high heat in the pile.
In general, I now think the evidence for high heat at Ground Zero is extremely strong-- and something that was covered up by the authorities. While the "plane attacks" and "tower collapses" can be explained as key parts of the 9/11 psy-op design, it makes little sense that high heat and red hot steel at Ground Zero would be a designed part of the psy-op.
The simple fact that so many witnesses have indicated high heat and molten steel, while there are so few pictures of this, indicate a cover-up.
posted by spooked at 10:46 AM
28 Comments:
the ability, for some of us, to converse decisively about evidence/proof of nukes at wtc, requires a much firmer grasp of the matter at hand than does, say, tv fakery/no planes, which is a much easier pill to force down someone's throat.
i wouldn't be able to convince my neighbors about this without pointing them to links to evidence such as this blog provides.
look at this photo of a tractor picking up a piece of glowing metal.
prof wood has added the blurb, "note the exposed hydraulics", as if implying that because the hydraulic seals (o-rings, etc) are degraded at temps of 180F, this tractor could not in fact pick up this piece of glowing metal - perhaps she implies that in order to further imply that glowingly hot temps were not actually recorded in and around NY's ground zero for months after the fact?
prof wood, being a mechanical engineer, would be well aware of steel's inherent capacity for wicking away any localized heat.
in a sense, that tractor is a giant heat sink and just because it might pick up a piece of metal that is so hot that it actually glows does not mean that the heat would transfer directly to the hydraulic seals.
disingenuous by implication.
^h.
RE that picture which Wood (and her minions) deridingly label as "Cheetos" because an apparently hot piece of metal fell off the crane--and that piece of metal IS glowing and CURVED (so it must be denounced--get it?), I have the following analysis:
1. We can see that the hot part is at the bottom of the clump of material the crane has picked up. It is, in fact, between the very ends of the pincers. Likely there are not any "hydraulic seals" there, just very thick steel.
2. How do we know what happened to that crane, possibly just seconds after this "pickup?" Maybe it did melt some of the pincer metal, and either no photo was taken then, or it was "embargoed" by all the Feds on scene to do just that? Maybe that crane was then put out of commision? Or maybe because the hot part was between pincers that did not have any seals it survived. Or maybe the hot stuff was hosed down right after this pic was taken, and no photos were allowed out of that.
This fits in with all the accounts of feds taking cameras, film etc at the WTC as destruction was unfolding--for what aim? To me, it is clear, to hide the truth of what was happening. That truth includes the nuking of the towers, and the China Syndrome aftermath.
And apparently anything that did squeak out, that proved high heat and molten steel must be derided by the regime's disinfo agents.
Thus that photo is only "Cheetos", and all the firemen and responders who witnessed molten--even flowing--steel weeks and months later are either wrong or lying or crazy, even though they have nothing to gain and much to lose.
So anything that does fit in with the DEW disinfo gets denounced.
The embargoing of photo/video evidence that down't fit the different disinfo theories ALLOWED out by the regime was confiscated on scene.
This was very much like teh Kennedy assassination. Fed gestapo swooped down and confiscated all photos and film that showed the driver turning around and shooting Connolly and then killing Kennedy. All films later released, like Zapruder's, had many missing frames and other doctoring, all with the one goal in mind. All the disinfo theories allowed were created to Babelize the matter so as to prevent the one actual thing that occurred from getting out. Those who told the Warren Commission that the driver did it, were either killed, or had their testimony altered. When first interviewed on scene the agents just told them they were either wrong or crazy.
Maybe some would say these witnesses just saw "Cheetos" or such.
The previous post was by me. Anonymous Physicist
Sorry for the typos.
Should say:
"So anything that does NOT fit in with the DEW disinfo gets denounced."
A.P.
The "fuming" is best explained by slowly dissociating steel which is not necessarily resultant of a high heat process. We know this because during the rainfall events, we would expect to more "steam" as the water hit the supposedly superhot metal. However, we did not. Cf also the fire hoses, which similarly repressed the fuming phenomena rather than adding to it, again indicative of a low-heat process.
However, it must also be noted the molecular dissociation of the steel is not best explained by DEW per se. Other material was *powderized*, likely by microwave DEW, but not so nearly atomically dissociated as the steel. The process that worked on the steel was specific to the steel, which resulted in the large amounts of metallic aerosols.
The long-term steel dissociation could be a "slow-burning" after-effect (air-buoyancy could be a factor) of an applied-resonance weapon directed at the steel specifically, (or perhaps also by chemical reactions resultant from nuclear processes in the basement). But NOT by a high-heat event. Eyewitness reports of molten metal were made by persons with no referent point for the concept of "mushy metal," i.e., metal slowly losing its integrity, progressing from solid to applesauce consistency to the metallic aerosols over the period of several months during which the fuming was observed.
Hope this helps.
""Eyewitness reports of molten metal were made by persons with no referent point for the concept of "mushy metal,"....""
what does that mean? either they saw and recognized metal that was hot enough to at least glow, if not actually molten, or they did not.
some reports were indeed of "dripping, molten steel".
^ha.
You can also read Ed Ward (M.D.)'s work on these matters of hotpsots months later, and massive craters created during the nuking of the WTC.
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/03/05/ward.htm
Some interesting things from Ward.
He has unique imaging data (not always with their URLs), and says at one point, [the image] shows, "More than 5 months later, February 12, 2002, WTC 1 is still hot." This agrees with firefighter Joe o'Toole. And see my reference to the Government Computer News item my article (here) of 7/29/07 highlighted. SIX months (March) after 9/11, temps were up to 1500 degrees, and higher still.
Then I see several statements from Ward that clearly seem aimed at the DEW hangout proponents: "The Discarded Ambulances and Fire Trucks: Too Dusty? Or Too Radioactive?" He shows many firetrucks to be discarded (to China?) even though some appear hardly damaged. He implies it's not from having Wood's "fuzzballs" on them, but because they are radioactive.
Ward has LIDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) images in his recent articles. The responders used lasers to map the WTC debris piles including the underground craters, created during the WTC destruction. LIDAR allows one to "see" the depths of craters created during demolition, underneath the rubble.
The NY Times also has shown these LIDAR images and tried to hide the crater underneath WTC7. But you can use the depth legend on the sides yourself. http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/met_TOPO_010923_00.html#
Then Ward's clincher. He appears to wish to bury the DEW hangout when he states that "no supposed unspecified vague ‘scalar’ weapon can make these massive craters beneath intact debris."
Case closed on DEW, according to Ward.
Interesting how those of us who could tell the nuking of the WTC from the outset of investigation, could plainly see how the DEW hangout was created to desperately try to steer people away from this realization.
DEW is done. The DEW drops have evaporated. Time to wake up to what the regime really did to those 3000 people on 9/11, and to all the responders and NYC dwellers, and the rest of the world.
Anonymous Physicist
Ah you gotta love the desperate DEWhuggers/regime shills. Finally we have some pseudo-science presented by "Total." Good name, if you know what I mean...
I love this quote, "Eyewitness reports of molten metal were made by PERSONS WITH NO REFERENCE POINT FOR THE CONCEPT OF MUSHY METAL, ... progressing from solid to applesauce ...to the metallic aerosols..."
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5F5PttzJY&NR=1
I think these 3 firemen (one unseen but heard) know what they speak of, when they declare they saw "molten steel flowing like lava in a foundry." This was a few weeks after 9/11. "APPLESAUCE" DOES NOT FLOW LIKE MOLTEN LAVA, that these brave gentlemen saw and attested to. No apple sauce seen by them. Don't accuse them of being dumb.
I also love the creation of new Physics from "Total": "slow-burning" after-effect (air-buoyancy could be a factor) of an applied-resonance weapon directed at the steel specifically, (or perhaps also by chemical reactions resultant from nuclear processes in the basement).
Note the gobbledy gook people: We have "air buoyancy" for things buried underneath other things. We have "chemical reactions from nuclear processes" [a seeming contradiction, without explanation], but OH NO high heat which is automatic with nuclear reactions. Total's crap here, BTW, again puts down Cold Fusion which some of the WOODhuggers have done before.
We also had this palaver: "the molecular dissociation of the steel is not best explained by DEW per se. Other material was *powderized*, likely by microwave DEW..."
So she says it WASN'T from DEW , and it WAS from DEW in the same sentence!
That's special DEW, Microwave DEW. Perhaps we should call this DEW DEW, a la Wood.
Then we have the old standby, "New Laws Of Physics.": "The process that worked on the steel was specific to the steel, which resulted in the large amounts of metallic aerosols." So we have STEEL-ONLY DEW. Sorry, Psyoper, an energy beam which is beamed to an area will affect everything in that area. Total says that the Super Steel DEW DEW was "Directed at the steel" even though it is deep underground. And "resonance" won't work, Psyoper, in part because steel is composed of SEVERAL elements, and it would affect things other than steel. Sorry, Total, too ad hoc, too obvious, too "Only on 9/11 at the WTC, even deep underground, doesn't matter, SUPER DEW goes where we want it to."
Note also that the DEWhuggers want to claim the rapid phenomena like the cars catching on fire during tower destruction (from EMP really, of course), and they now want to claim from Ms. "Total" ultra-slow, six month DEW.
Something created out of nothing to explain all "exotic" phenomena, of course explains nothing. Why they have done this was made clear. The nuking of 3000 human
beings,a nd the China Syndrome aftermath.
NSA: Give it a rest. Your DEW Hangout is done.
Anonymous Physicist
webfairy (wood supporter, no-planes pioneer) has suggested that free energy can be drawn from the "aether" (using a secret technology) [magic! ha ha] so that a flying platform could indeed supply enough power to a flying beam weapon which could beam a 20' diameter hole from above.
personally i don't think so.
^h.
h:
Why quote an ignoramus?
Officially, the Michelson-Morley experiments in the late 1800s disproved the existence of the aether, and that disproving helped, in part, lead Einstein to his theories of Relativity.
A brief confiramtion of this (if new to you) is at this Case Western U. page: http://www.case.edu/menu/sciencecenter/mmfountain.htm
But that person you cited may be confusing the "aether" with "vacuum energy" which involves the creation and annhilation of virtual particles from the vacuum--which has real physical effect. I believe some laypeople have started to call this "scalar energy" or scalar weapons. (BTW I already quoted [elsewhere today] Ed Ward saying such things couldn't have been used at the WTC either due to the logistics).
And maybe your person, like Wood herself, just desperately is trying to finagle anything (energy) from anywhere, and gets things all confused.
Their point is to say anything out there to confuse and confound--and themselves, in the process, apparently too! And to hide the nuking of the WTC, with any ad hoc crap.
Also as I wrote, no such weapons would be allowed in Space. If you forget what I am referring to re-read the "Ultimate truths" article at Sppoked's site created for this: anonymous-physicist.blogspot.com
But please do NOT quote people saying that these DEW weapons are in Space--they are not. Period. Out criminal "leaders" would love to get them there, and take it from there, but there are no such weapons allowed in space. Just as the nuking of the Van Allen belts was stopped by blasting the Thor rockets, and the nuking of the dark side of the Moon was also prevented. Attempts to put DEW in space would not last for mere seconds.
This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the issue of powering the DEW. I have already written, there is no issue with that. Nuclear reactions could power DEW, just as DEW can give rise to nuclear fusion. This is not the issue. The issue is that DEW use on 9/11 is a Psyop, a Limited Hangout from letting the people know that their regime nuked the 3000 people and that nuclear radioactivity was released for many months there, killing many responders, and New York City residents.
They have DEW, I said that. Likely the PTB used very advanced DEW to shoot down OTHERS over Roswell in 1947, and many other similar events--almost always near nuclear bombs BTW. But it had nothing to do with 9/11.
All Wood's material is to keep the masses from being enraged about nuking thousands of their fellow
Americans, and other human beings.
There has never been any evidence of DEW use on 9/11, nor for the months afterwards. Military scum from our own regime did the entire deed. The American military helicopters and planes (and I don't mean the cgi planes that didn't crash into anything that day) coordinated or directed events at the WTC that morning.
There is no need to quote shills putting out a limited hangout. There will only be more and more desperation, now that they have been outed as a Psyop/Limited hangout for the purpose of hiding the nuking.
Why not spend time promulgating the truth of the nuking of the WTC, and the China Syndrome aftermath to other sites? Don't waste your time with disinfo agents' desperations. Thank you.
Anonymous Physicist
Jesus Fucking Christ, Anonymous Piece of SHIT! Don't you have a fucking day job? Why do you BLOVIATE so! Is that all you do all day on your parent's computer? Make up shit and string together 2-3 dozen paragraphs of excrement?
Jaysus, Mary and Joseph. Please give us a break and go pop some zits or something. Go whack off while thinkingn about Mary Beth or someone - or even Spooky. Or ha - that fucking moron. I mean seriously.
Hey 1:11 what are you doing here, if you have no interst in these matters? And never anything specific to say?
And why do you have to always write about your own sick activities?
Of course, we know that this is your day job--shill.
But why must you keep writing of your own physical activites?
I'm not the pimply teenager stealing time on my parent's computer when the Nat Nanny is not on. I'm not the moron who can fool all you lunatics bu stringing together random paragraphs of technical mumbo jumbo and passing it off as "Big Thinking!"
You idiots need to be tracked and monitored. That's why I am here. That's why I comment here. We are watching you.
Fuck wad.
monitor this!
"The process that worked on the steel was specific to the steel, which resulted in the large amounts of metallic aerosols." So we have STEEL-ONLY DEW.
No... Calm down a bit. Breathe.
The steel-specific dissociation was the result of exotic weaponry, but not DEW. Read up on Tesla'a mechanical oscillator, an applied-resonance device which he also called his "earthquake machine." He used it to dissociate steel buildings.
(You are of course correct about beam weapons effecting everything in their path. Obviously, any steel weakened by this resonance process for an hour or so would not take well to then being hit by a beam weapon, and/or a silicon carbide antenna/drill-bit heated by a beam weapon. (It's also possible there were supplementary resonance beams tuned specifically to the WTC steel -- something like this coul acount for the infamous "spire video."))
Spooky!! *sob* We need you!!!!
http://home.comcast.net/~fszwtnj/impactwtc.pdf
Its an-OTHER one of those engineering organizatiosn with an-OTHER analysis of wht an aircraft can penetrate a building!Q
We need you to refute this with more of your chicken wire experiments and your hand-drawn diagrams!!!!!
Oh Spooky!! We are lost without you!!!!
This paper says that the aircraft speed was almost twice what was needed top penetrate the walls!
Oh woe is us! "gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands"
*burp*
Could you specifically dissect *this* passage with your legendary mind???
"Fig. 7 shows the failure process at different time steps when the
aircraft impacts the building at the top speed 240 m/ s with a
full fuel tank and the exterior columns have the original column
thickness of 9.5 mm. It is observed that all columns fail and the
aircraft penetrates through the exterior wall. It is also found that about 46% of the total initial kinetic energy of the aircraft is
absorbed in damaging the exterior columns and the aircraft. The
residual impact velocity of the aircraft after the penetration is
171 m/ s. Wierzbicki and Teng 2003 found that the absorbed
kinetic energy and the residual velocity were 6.7% and 223 m/ s,
respectively. They considered only one column and a portion of
the wing that interacts with it. In this FEA, the whole aircraft and
the total number of columns in front of it are considered. Part of
the initial kinetic energy of the aircraft is used to deform the
wing, fuselage and bracing columns, but in Wierzbicki and Teng
2003, the wing was assumed to be a rigid body. Therefore, there
are differences in the model between the FEA and the analytical
results. Another reason for differences between the two is that in this FEA, the aircraft is assumed to have a full tank of fuel, but the fuel was neglected in the analytical study by Wierzbicki and Teng 2003."
http://home.comcast.net/~fszwtnj/impactwtc.pdf
wow those guys sure are good at math - veritable *genius*!
but they seem to have left one thing out:
in what manner would the smooth rounded lightweight plastic nosecone of a thin walled lighweight hollow tube of a real 767 actually penetrate the massive steel and concrete of a wtc?
would it
A) cut thru like a blade
B) bludgeon thru like a hammer
http://home.comcast.net/~fszwtnj/impactwtc.pdf
hey you should post that over at 911blogger.com (/tard)!
those guys will embrace it without even a second thought.
Anonymous 3:09:
The paper you cite assumes the fuselage penetrated. It doesn't explain how, because it can't.
Aluminum deforms when it hits steel. The fast the planer, the faster it deforms.
The columns were backed by floors in real life, but the model in the Karim/Hoo Fatt paper only considered columns, yet still found 46% loss of kinetic energy.
aren't those the same guys that insisted that even a 50 ton water balloon would penetrate a wtc if it were travelling at 500mph?
So the argument against DEW is now that aliens would not allow it, and evidence for nukes is being prevented by someone who believes that the moon is fake and glactic evil ones are quarantined on earth.
Hey maybe it's all truth, what do I know?
But for someone who thinks that nukes or some other powerful internal devices were used, it's a real mind fuck to read that part of the argument involves aliens.
I hope that's not by design.
----------------------------------
Also as I wrote, no such weapons would be allowed in Space. If you forget what I am referring to re-read the "Ultimate truths" article at Sppoked's site created for this:
anonymous-physicist.blogspot.com
"evidence for nukes is being prevented"
should read "promoted"
"Hey maybe it's all truth, what do I know?"
You said one true statement there, shill/retard.
No part of A.P.'s nuclear mechanism involves "aliens," lying shill. Find it for me please at any of his nuclear mechanism articles archived at wtcdemolition.blogspot.com The other issue has been kept separate.
Read what he wrote above, and elsewhere. He gives the "credit" to the military with all their helicopters and planes directing things.
He only cited those other matters as part of his efforts to show that DEW, and their space-based beam wepaons are impossible.
Can't your scum superiors at the NSA send someone who can read and think? Where's disinfo "Thinker" lately?
Wrong, A4:52. AP is arguing that DEW weapons would not be allowed in space by the aliens, as an argument against the use of DEW weapons.
Like you said: "He only cited those other matters as part of his efforts to show that DEW, and their space-based beam wepaons are impossible."
So it is part of his argument, even if minor, and it is completely reasonable to be concerned about that.
Your shill-like attack on me only increases my concern.
it would be cool if all of you guys would stop throwing the word shill out left and right.
the real shills are people like christine todd whitman and pretend smart guy greg jenkins etc.
h.
Shill shill shill SHILL SHILL!!!!
ha is the shill - he *has* to be - nobody in their right mind without being a complete retard would be advocating this shit.
He's a disinfo shill.
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