Isreal Controls the US and Did 9/11! Or Not!
There is kind of an amusing discussion here between Webster Tarpley and Greg Felton, on the role of Israel in 9/11 (it gets good about an hour in). Tarpley totally downplays the influence of Israel/Zionists/Neocons on 9/11 and Felton blames it almost entirely on them. Felton is a rather rabid anti-Israel researcher.
The amusing thing is that both Tarpley and Felton make great points, but ultimately both of them fall short of a proper explanation for what is going on. Tarpley is wrong to totally ignore the role of Israel, while Felton falls short by failing to explain exactl how Israel has such total control over the US. Why do Anglo-American leaders -- who are not dumb-- let themselves be subjugated? It's certainly absurd to posit that the US are simply stooges for Israel. However, clearly Israel has some bizarre level of control over the US. Unfortunately, in the show, no one bothered to point out how this control is maintained.
Possibilities for how Israel could maintain a grip over America are:
1) massive infiltration of key power positions in the US by Jewish moles/Israel agents.
2) some sort of blackmail of the US by Israel, for instance it has been proposed that Israel has nukes in several American cities, ready to go off, or the threat to start a world war by attacking Iran.
3) very powerful propaganda and political pressure (ie AIPAC), in part from sympathy to Jews from the holocaust and the "common enemy" of Islamic terrorists.
4) some supernatural power involving Judaism/God/Kabbalah/Mysticism.
5) some combination of the above.
Now, I have long thought that the seeming control of Israel over the US is to some extent smoke-and-mirrors and is a psy-op. The point is to make Israel look like the controller when they are really patsies. This has certainly been Anonymous Physicist's view, where Israel are really patsies for the higher level evil PTB who rule us all. But, why would Israel be patsies-- what do they get out of it? And if they are patsies, why do we bow before them so and let them dictate middle east policy? Conceivably we could use them as patsies but then we act like they control us to trick them. But this seems a bit silly to me.
Thus, the various explanations out there for the US-Israel relationship don't make much sense. 9/11 and the ME wars can't be all about Israel, nor can they have nothing to do with Israel. But perhaps a composite explanation works better-- a scenario where the Anglo-Americans and Israel are both competitors for control of US power, while at the same time, Anglo-Americans use Israel for their own power games. Or perhaps simpler, the Anglo-Americans tolerate Israel's games (and play up to them) as long as their interests intersect. Conceivably, in this arrangement, Israel agrees to be the US tough guy, as long as the US supports (acquiesces to) whatever they do. Perhaps this agreement similar to how the CIA might use the Mafia (or international drug lords) for certain nasty deeds that they want done anyway. Or perhaps internationally, the US and Israel play sort of a good cop/bad cop routine, with Israel being the bad cop.
A whole other complexity is the relationship between Israel and the larger Jewish population, especially American Jews. While it is easy to conflate all Jewry with all things Israel, this is not the case for sure. Moreover, not even all Israelis can be lumped together, as large percentages do not like the conservative pro-war aspect of Israel. The real problem is the large numbers of Jewish pro-Israel pro-war assholes in the US govt and in the US punditry. The disturbing fact is that the war advocates in the US are represented by Jews in an outrageously larger proportion to the percentage of Jews in the general US population. Whether these are really clever Israeli/Jewish cabal moles or an allowed design by the non-Jewish US elites, is unclear, but I suspect the latter.
Anyway, you look at it, it is clearly a complex relationship. I think overall, it makes more sense that the US tolerates the more obnoxious things Israel does, rather than Israel truly controlling the US. At the same time, Israel/Jews do have a lot of power over the US through various mechanisms, as noted above. I also think that despite the evil ultimate nature of the PTB, in the US-Israel relationship, there is a fair amount of public relations that must be maintained. Publicly, the US can't be seen as being Israel's bitch too much, nor can it be admitted publicly that Israel does the US's dirty work. So there is a LOT of disinformation/misinformation about Israel and Jews. So I find it hard to get upset about people who blame Israel for 9/11. Israel is not the ultimate answer in my opinion, but it at least is a starting point for debunking the official 9/11 conspiracy theory.
Anyone who says Israel/Jews control the US has to have good answers for:
1) how does Israel/Jews have such amazing control over the US when they are massively outnumbered in the population
2) why do Anglo-American leaders tolerate Israel/Jews control?
So far, I haven't heard those good answers.
UPDATE-- also, I should note, there is of course, very good a priori evidence for Israel involvement in 9/11 (that I won't go into here). So, it's natural that people who don't go very deeply into conspiracy matters would blame Israel, even if the truth is much more complicated.
In the original discussion noted above, I liked Kevin Barret's point how Muslims have been abused and terrorized in the past 10 years, and how this is not unlike what happened to Jews before and during WWII. He suggests that Muslims may get new respect once the truth about 9/11 comes out. I'm not sure about that, but it's an interesting idea. Barret also claims he is Muslim, which I didn't know before.
The amusing thing is that both Tarpley and Felton make great points, but ultimately both of them fall short of a proper explanation for what is going on. Tarpley is wrong to totally ignore the role of Israel, while Felton falls short by failing to explain exactl how Israel has such total control over the US. Why do Anglo-American leaders -- who are not dumb-- let themselves be subjugated? It's certainly absurd to posit that the US are simply stooges for Israel. However, clearly Israel has some bizarre level of control over the US. Unfortunately, in the show, no one bothered to point out how this control is maintained.
Possibilities for how Israel could maintain a grip over America are:
1) massive infiltration of key power positions in the US by Jewish moles/Israel agents.
2) some sort of blackmail of the US by Israel, for instance it has been proposed that Israel has nukes in several American cities, ready to go off, or the threat to start a world war by attacking Iran.
3) very powerful propaganda and political pressure (ie AIPAC), in part from sympathy to Jews from the holocaust and the "common enemy" of Islamic terrorists.
4) some supernatural power involving Judaism/God/Kabbalah/Mysticism.
5) some combination of the above.
Now, I have long thought that the seeming control of Israel over the US is to some extent smoke-and-mirrors and is a psy-op. The point is to make Israel look like the controller when they are really patsies. This has certainly been Anonymous Physicist's view, where Israel are really patsies for the higher level evil PTB who rule us all. But, why would Israel be patsies-- what do they get out of it? And if they are patsies, why do we bow before them so and let them dictate middle east policy? Conceivably we could use them as patsies but then we act like they control us to trick them. But this seems a bit silly to me.
Thus, the various explanations out there for the US-Israel relationship don't make much sense. 9/11 and the ME wars can't be all about Israel, nor can they have nothing to do with Israel. But perhaps a composite explanation works better-- a scenario where the Anglo-Americans and Israel are both competitors for control of US power, while at the same time, Anglo-Americans use Israel for their own power games. Or perhaps simpler, the Anglo-Americans tolerate Israel's games (and play up to them) as long as their interests intersect. Conceivably, in this arrangement, Israel agrees to be the US tough guy, as long as the US supports (acquiesces to) whatever they do. Perhaps this agreement similar to how the CIA might use the Mafia (or international drug lords) for certain nasty deeds that they want done anyway. Or perhaps internationally, the US and Israel play sort of a good cop/bad cop routine, with Israel being the bad cop.
A whole other complexity is the relationship between Israel and the larger Jewish population, especially American Jews. While it is easy to conflate all Jewry with all things Israel, this is not the case for sure. Moreover, not even all Israelis can be lumped together, as large percentages do not like the conservative pro-war aspect of Israel. The real problem is the large numbers of Jewish pro-Israel pro-war assholes in the US govt and in the US punditry. The disturbing fact is that the war advocates in the US are represented by Jews in an outrageously larger proportion to the percentage of Jews in the general US population. Whether these are really clever Israeli/Jewish cabal moles or an allowed design by the non-Jewish US elites, is unclear, but I suspect the latter.
Anyway, you look at it, it is clearly a complex relationship. I think overall, it makes more sense that the US tolerates the more obnoxious things Israel does, rather than Israel truly controlling the US. At the same time, Israel/Jews do have a lot of power over the US through various mechanisms, as noted above. I also think that despite the evil ultimate nature of the PTB, in the US-Israel relationship, there is a fair amount of public relations that must be maintained. Publicly, the US can't be seen as being Israel's bitch too much, nor can it be admitted publicly that Israel does the US's dirty work. So there is a LOT of disinformation/misinformation about Israel and Jews. So I find it hard to get upset about people who blame Israel for 9/11. Israel is not the ultimate answer in my opinion, but it at least is a starting point for debunking the official 9/11 conspiracy theory.
Anyone who says Israel/Jews control the US has to have good answers for:
1) how does Israel/Jews have such amazing control over the US when they are massively outnumbered in the population
2) why do Anglo-American leaders tolerate Israel/Jews control?
So far, I haven't heard those good answers.
UPDATE-- also, I should note, there is of course, very good a priori evidence for Israel involvement in 9/11 (that I won't go into here). So, it's natural that people who don't go very deeply into conspiracy matters would blame Israel, even if the truth is much more complicated.
In the original discussion noted above, I liked Kevin Barret's point how Muslims have been abused and terrorized in the past 10 years, and how this is not unlike what happened to Jews before and during WWII. He suggests that Muslims may get new respect once the truth about 9/11 comes out. I'm not sure about that, but it's an interesting idea. Barret also claims he is Muslim, which I didn't know before.
posted by spooked at 8:15 PM
13 Comments:
Possibilities for how Israel could maintain a grip over America are:
6) all of the above.
----
Anyone who says Israel/Jews control the US has to have good answers for:
1) how does Israel/Jews have such amazing control over the US when they are massively outnumbered in the population
maybe because they totally own the media.
2) why do Anglo-American leaders tolerate Israel/Jews control?
because they are spineless.
Have you tried looking at the issue as if it was the planet sized scaled-up verion of organised crime families?
Psychopaths tend to be able to get to positions of authority because they learn to use people's own weaknesses against them for the purposes of control.
Their leadership utilises tools of control including money, power, threats of violence, allowing acts of perversion and debauchery and as long as everyone involved in the chain of corruption gets their base urges satisfied, no-one stops them.
I think the quote often attributed to Edmund Burke has relevance; "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".
Re-phrasing your last two questions at a lower level gives:
1) how does organised crime have such amazing control over the US when they are massively outnumbered in the population
2) why do Anglo-American leaders tolerate organised crime control?
I trust that helps.
The use of Israel as the super-elite's "cat's paw" for controlling nations and starting wars was planned long, long before that "SLC" (look it up, if you need to...) was finally United Nations-planted in Palestinian soil, in an act of massive theft just a few months after the ultra-occult, black-magic year of 1947.
The international addictive-drug trade, coerced-sex trade, and illegal-arms trade all pass through Israel as a key choke-point and cash-skimming hub, and have so for decades.
Plus... the vast quantities of Israel-firster-supplied cash (which fuels each major U.S. political campaign) is the absolute lifeblood of virtually all the important members of the House and Senate.
Of course, the elite cabal's control over the mainstream U.S. media is so total that the first three of these disgusting truths (about illegal drugs/sex/weapons) remains heavily suppressed -- while the fourth truth (about blatant political bribery) receives, by alternation, either sly-winking or gloating news coverage every election season.
Tarpley is usually the sharpest knife in the drawer on these issues, but he also knows that if he says too much about Zionist manipulation (even as a cat's paw for the occultic banksters) he won't be a welcome, talking-head guest in as wide a range of alternate-media forums as he currently is.
And as a genuinely compassionate liberal (the guy's got a good heart and a strong sense of genuine-Christian morality) he is truly repulsed by the blatherings of mindless, foaming-at-the-mouth anti-Semites.
I just wish he weren't so forgiving of the anti-democratic excesses of Putin and the Chinese. But at the end of the day, he sees them as a necessary counterweight to the bloody outrages of Finance Capital and Western Imperialism.
thanks for the thoughtful comments...
to 11:29PM, I don't think spinelessness explains everything.
to 4:18PM, I think what you are saying basically jibes with what I was trying to say.
to Andy Tyme-- thanks, I agree about Tarpley and your other points are well taken. Though I still find it odd Tarpley isn't willing to call out Israel more.
Also, in the Cat's Paw analogy, what is in it for the Cat? If Israel is ultimately being used, what is in it for Israel? Aren't they smart enough to realize they are being used, even if there is some immediate reward?
This link proves who is in charge!
http://usmediaandisrael.com/?p=475
@spooked. but they are spineless. one either has the spinal fortitude to reject and expose corruption or one doesn't. i don't think there's any other excuse except maybe they threaten one's family.
I am still pretty agnostic about the extent of Israeli involvement in 9/11. The strong claims some people make have not been adequately backed up by the evidence I've seen, but I need to look into it more. Often people refer to classified evidence or insider talk from unidentified sources, which doesn't help me.
However, this Alison Weir article is a pretty impressive review (and I'm not saying all of this was familiar to me) of how Zionists have shaped American foreign policy for longer than I've fully realized:
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2012/06/history-of-the-us-israel-relationship-part-i/
I'm enjoying this. Good commentary about the Vancouver Hearings. However, as you can appreciate, arguing against Webster Tarpley and sharing time with other guests did not afford me the opportunity to get into the full history of how Israel managed to take control of the U.S.
My book "The Host and the Parasite—How Israel’s Fifth Column Consumed America" goes into painstaking detail on this topic.
Among other thinks I show that it is a mistake to look at Jews/Israelis just as a functions of their population numbers.
If you read my book the Israeli occupation of America becomes obvious.
Just one comment to Andy Tyme:
The idea that the UN created Israel is a popular fiction. It didn't. The Partition Plan was never ratified by the Security Council and therefore does not exist. Israel is the creation of theft, but it was a Jewish theft aided and abetted largely by the U.S.
This essay I wrote sets out the full history of the creation of Israel
http://www.gregfelton.com/int_politics/2011_07_22.htm
Just one comment to Andy Tyme: The idea that the UN created Israel is a popular fiction. It didn't. The Partition Plan was never ratified by the Security Council and therefore does not exist. Israel is the creation of theft, but it was a Jewish theft aided and abetted largely by the U.S. This essay I wrote sets out the full history of the creation of Israel "http://www.gregfelton.com/int_politics/2011_07_22.htm"
there's no doubt that Israel intel knew the attacks were coming, at the minimum.
Off the top of my head, some of the evidence for more direct Israeli involvement is:
1) an Israeli firm in charge of airport security at the key airports involved in 9/11
2) the Israeli owned moving van found in NYC, with explosive residue
3) the Israeli commando on flight 11
But by no means do I think Israel did 9/11 by themselves, and the US clearly did most of 9/11.
While many people are led to believe that US support for Israel is driven by the American establishment and U.S. national interests, the facts don’t support this theory. The reality is that for decades U.S. experts opposed Israel and its founding movement. They were simply outmaneuvered and eventually replaced.
History of the US-Israel Relationship, Part I
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31706.htm
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