Humint Events Online: Wings Break Off

Thursday, April 20, 2006

Wings Break Off

I set up an experiment testing how a plane might break up upon impacting arrayed steel columns like the WTC wall. The plane and the columns were both constructed of similar pieces of wood (which here favors the plane, since in real life, aluminum is weaker than steel). The dimensions of the models were not perfect, but they were a rough match for the WTC and a 767. I did not put floors into the model, so this also favors the plane.

I pushed the plane forcefully into the "wall", and while the fuselage penetrated the wall after reasonably strong force was applied, the wings broke off at the root where the wings met the plane. The wings actually bent backwards and slid into the hole alongside the fuselage. The wood of the wings actually broke. A few "columns" broke where the fuselage went in, and a couple broke on either side of the fuselage hole, where the wings broke off-- but basically the array of columns were much stronger than the long wings.

This actually makes sense in terms of physics. The fuselage had a concentrated impact force on a relatively small front area, and thus could break the columns inward. However, a wing has a much wider impact area, which dissipates the impact force, thus favoring the columns' strength. If I were an engineer, I'm sure I could find an equation that could describe this phenomenon. Basically, of course, it is the same principle why a pointed object has more penetrating power than a long straight edge-- even if both are equally sharp.

Note that in real-life, the aluminum wings should break off even more readily when they impact heavy steel columns than in this experiment.

This finding that the wings break off also fits with what is observed in other plane crashes: the wings break off.

This means of course, that no 767 hit either WTC tower.

The plane-shaped hole was merely a ruse, to trick people into thinking a large plane had impacted the WTC. Unfortunately this trick defied physics.


Further: in theory, wings could break through the columns if they had enough mass and momentum. The key point though is that on a plane, the wings are far from the center of mass, they cannot carry enough force to break through the columns and thus their response is to break and fold back. The analogy would be like having your arms stretched straight out and trying to knock down two strong wooden posts on either side of you with your fists. With your whole body behind your hands, you could knock down one post, but your body's force is too diffuse to knock down both posts when your arms are stretched out to the side.

And yes, Holmgren was right. If the wings and plane were strong to slice cleanly into the wall, the plane should have sliced all the way through the building!

This piece from Holmgren is worth a re-read.

41 Comments:

Anonymous James Ha said...

but, but, but they were going 500mph! ha. did you know that the nosecone of a 767 is made of carbon? wow that's got to be even stronger than fiberglass. it's a miracle that flights 11 & 175 didn't level the whole city!

4:50 AM  
Blogger Spooked said...

500, I thought it was 600 mph!

Why is it different vidoes give such different speeds for the second plane, anyway? Hmmm....

8:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're kidding me. Build a model out of blocks, an airplane out of the same, push one into the other....and you think this is an accurate simulation? What a joke. Heck, I could do the same sort of thing for a "controlled demolition". Build a building out of blocks, suddenly remove the bottom layer....and the whole thing topples sideways, just like controlled demolitions *don't*. What a farce.

Oh, and I love this line: "If I were an engineer, I'm sure I could find an equation that could describe this phenomenon." Since you are, by your own admission, obviously not an engineer, how are you the least bit qualified to comment on this?

8:05 AM  
Anonymous 9/11 is not a conpiracy said...

you are honestly nothing less than a complete fucking moron, do you honestly think this is any kind of re-enactment whatsoever, do the world a favor and kill yourself before you reproduce and make more drains on society.

1:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To be truly dedicated to finding out the truth about 9/11, one must first remove their head from their ass. Then again... if I were a brain surgeon, I'm sure I could develop an invasive proceedure to rectify this phenomenon.

2:14 PM  
Anonymous eyesroll said...

Hey, buddy!
I took a bullet, held it in my hand, and pushed it real hard against my chest. It didn't go in! It hardly even hurt!
It's all a conspiracy! Bullets can't kill! Must be the CIA! Bush is up to something!
Help me prove it! I need corroboration from you! Put a bullet in a gun, push it up against your chest, and pull the trigger! You can finally prove the conspiracy!
Please?

2:16 PM  
Blogger Sigmund, Carl and Alfred said...

Are you insane?

Get help, please. If you won't do it for yourself, do it for your family.

I'm sure they are very nice people.

2:20 PM  
Anonymous johnboy said...

Holy F**K. How did you figure all that out. You say you're not an engineer, but you are obviously way smarter than all the engineers in the world. I am SO thankful I found your blog site as I can hardly wait for your next dispensation of brilliance.

Have you ever thought of running for president? With your intelligence at the helm of the country the world would quickly turn into a Utopian dream.

(In case you didn't notice...I was being sarcastic)
Get a life and get back to sweeping the Walmart parking lot.

2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Loosen the tin-foil beanie.

Robots are the ones that attacked us on 9/11. Duhh.

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was very depressed today. Someone passed this link on, and I now feel much better.
Thank you for amusing me.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how does a lead bullet penetrate steel? Lead is much softer than steel.

How does a lawn mower blade cut something as flexible as a blade of grass? If I push a lawnmower blade along the grass in my lawn, the grass just bends, it doesn't get cut. It must be a conspiracy of some kind, right?

How fast were the engines travelling when they hit the columns? How much did they bend or deform the steel in the columns and lessen their ability to handle a compression load?

7:03 PM  
Blogger PGP said...

Just a suggestion...
1- Go to school
2- Learn Math
3- Learn Physics
4- Study engineering

If you do these things I promise that you will see the world in a different light.
If you are not inclined to do this ...
Do not pretend to understand math, physics, or engineering.

Just sayin' ya know!

7:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spooked, tighten up your tinfoil beanie! KKKarl Rove has zapped you with his Evil Mind-Control Ray Gun!!!


Progressive Paul (who hates Chimpy McHitlerBurton's AmeriKKKa)

8:09 PM  
Blogger RkBall said...

Have you tried reconstructing Dealey Plaza, and reenacting the JFK assassination?

11:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course New Yorkers are so self absorbed they would never notice hundreds of engineers removing wall panels, drilling holes in the structural supports, inserting 1/4 sticks or more of dynamite into each hole, inserting a detonator and precision timing devices, running wires all through the building.....

All the while, no one in the WTC would have noticed that their cell phones and wireless networks (and the microwaves in the coffe rooms, the radios of the security and maintainence staffs and other electronic devices would be deactivated for a period of weeks or months while the set up was being done to prevent premature detonation.

I once saw a rather small building being destroyed in a controlled implosion, the building had been blocked off for several weeks so the engineers could examine it for unexpected or undocumented changes to the blueprints and do all the preparation work (they had to remove all the interior drywall, since that would have increased the amount of explosive needed past the saftey limit). When the big day came, I have to tell you the scene was totally unlike what I saw on 9/11, not even close.

2:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this site supposed to be a satire?

11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very interesting, but you see, it was not the airplane wings that caused the problem, it was the human mind. This is just another perspective on the old truism "Guns don't kill, people do".

Here is an experiment to prove this point. Run your head into your wooden model building as fast and hard as you can. If you do it fast and hard enough, it will absolutely change your perspective on this. I guarantee it.

12:16 PM  
Blogger Pat said...

When I was a kid I used to ram my Matchbox cars together and they'd never get smushed up like a car in an accident. I guess I proved that auto accidents are faked?

7:39 PM  
Anonymous THANOS said...

Are you joking? You gotta be cause if youre not, than you gotta have the IQ of a chimp. This has got to be the #1 stupidest and most insane conspiracy theory i have ever read. And ive saw hundreds if not thousands of these theories. Youres takes the prize as the most idiotic. Get a life and a job, but whatever you do, please DO NOT become an engineer of any sort.

4:28 PM  
Blogger Yashmak said...

I am an engineer.

Your so-called 'experiment' is tantamount to me attempting to critique Mozart or Bach on the basis of musical theory. Why? Because I know NOTHING about musical theory.

You appear to know even less about physics, dynamics, and mechanics of materials than I do about musical theory.

Guys like you will listen to any individual who comes forward with a version of the event that fits your preconceived notions "It MUST have been a conspiracy!!", and ignore the thousands upon thousands who saw what actually happened. . . .two large commercial airliners, packed with innocent civilians, crashed into the WTC towers.

Do you ever feel the denial tickling the back of your conscience?

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My nipples are as hard as raisins....

4:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My nipples are responsible for the fall of the towers. Each nipple took down one tower respectively. BTW, it was no conspiracy, just my nipples. Nothing more, nothing less.

4:39 PM  
Blogger Yashmak said...

" think the evidence is incontrovertible that the WTC towers were blown up by controlled demolition on 9/11,"

This very premise is laughable, as the idea that the towers were blown up by demolition has, in fact, been controverted on numerous occasions, by literally hundreds of engineers and architects, including myself.

So much for 'incontrovertible'

4:40 PM  
Blogger GoatGuy said...

I love this guy. He had the balls and gumption to put together a Savanna Simulation.

Although it is easy to find fault with his sim, (and really just using common sense instead of the shred of authority afforded my university physics, engineering, materials science and chem background), consider: instead of sitting around like the millions of exaulted Euroweenies, he went out and said, "Ya know, Gunther. We can do this! Yep.", and did.

Mr. Spooked:

From an engineering point of view you need to scale not just the physical dimensions of your setup, but also the velocities - AND the structural materials properties.

So, for instance, instead of building your sim out of aluminum or wood, you should get a recipe for graham crackers and bake up really large ones in the 'standard' thickness. They'd become your plates/floors. For the exterior supports, you could use something rather stronger, such as thin balsa wood, per what you might construct a model plane out of.

The Plane itself should be built out of balsa, cardboard, aluminum foil sheets. It should have a scaled mass equal to that of a similar 747 or whatever the jets were that flew into the buildings.

Finally, to simulate the effect of fire on weakening the structure, simply partially fill the plane with water. It will cause the graham to sag, to lose all its resilience.

Your building should probably be about 10 feet tall, and 1.5 feet by 1.5 feet on the bottom. Each layer is about an inch, on center.

You also need to scale the speed per the square root of the scaling. So, if this thing is 1/150th scale, then you need to hit it at 1/13th the speed. The jets were estimated going 400 knots (about 450 mph), so you're looking at maybe 30 mph. That shouldn't be too hard with a long standard 'surgical hose'

I fully expect a well crafted graham cracker skyscraper, hit with a 30 MPH scale model jet, half filled with water will not show any sign of wing bending, will sustain the crash, and then will become soggy in a few minutes leading to a collapse of the whole thing through structural overload. Pancakeing.

And once it begins to go, it will go pretty quickly.

Give it a whirl!

5:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Youre on the right track !!! Wow....its fantastic to hear someone that thinks the same as me !!!...ive moved the step a little further on though...pssssstttt !!! want to hear what happened next......................................................................................???

Well !! - I took a razorblade and drew it across my throat in order to create a rippling effect..,much like the stupid idea of metal ripping through concrete at 500mph...and guess what ?? nothing happened to me......Sooooooooooo !!!! If you try it, you would then prove that you are correct beyond all doubt !!!!

p.s.....dont forget to feed your only friend the cat, before you do.....i worry that he may go hungry !!!

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is my question.

If the idea was to create the perception of a terrorist attack, why do you need the towers to fall? Wouldn't the impact and the resulting damage be enough without the building collapsing?

Plus, trying to fly whatever it was just above the line where you planted the explosive at that speed would be a difficult trick.

7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we assume 9/11 was a massive psy-ops campaign, then we can assume that nothing about 9/11 is really as it seems.


If we assume you are actually a 12 point buck, we can legally shoot you in the chest with a shotgun and mount your head on our living room wall.

What a moron.

9:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The plane and the columns were both constructed of similar pieces of wood (which here favors the plane, since in real life, aluminum is weaker than steel).

You should also note that wood is brittle and will break, where aluminum is malleable and could bend without breaking as it crashes into the building.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

aluminum is malleable and could bend without breaking

Well, that actually depends on the alloy. Aluminum can be alloyed such that it is very hard and brittle. That said, such an alloy would likely be useless in airplane construction. And that said, aluminum does work harden, which means that repeated stresses can make the metal hard and brittle, so it is possible for older aluminum structures to have stress cracks.

All that said, this guy is a loon, and I suspect desperate for attention.

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you guys are so fooled by the government, this man just offered total truth and all you can do is look for flaws that dont exist!!! It was the government

4:13 PM  
Blogger jc84144 said...

BUT THERE IS ONE BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS THOERY.

Fist, a big one, the wings have fuel tanks in them, this means, the wings have a lot of extra weight then you make out in your.. pathetic 'simulation'.
Also, the engines attached to a wing mean the there is even more weight on the wing.

Also, if you scale a small model, of the WTC and a plane, the actually atoms that make up the materials, and properties don’t get smaller, this means the simulation is way off.

6:10 PM  
Blogger jc84144 said...

ITS AS SIMPLE AS THIS...

If I get a small piece of concrete, say 1 inch by 1 inch, and drop it on another piece 1 inch by 1 inch, from 1 foot up, not much will happen. BUT... if we repeat this test, with a 100 feet by 100 feet pieces, and drop it 1200 feet up (same scale) something a lot different happens... as you can imagine.

And, even if the speed and mass of the wings wouldn’t cut right through the outer columns (in witch they should, and did) they would DEFERNTLY not just fold back when travelling at 500mph. The wings would shatter into thousands of pieces.

There is also some other points I should raise. The wings are covered in light Wight but strong material. This alone would cause server damage at 500mph. BUT THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE, in side each wing, large fuel tank, fuel, and what else? A very long steal beam that goes from the end of the wing to the middle of the plane, to keep the wing fixed to the plane, now this, would DEFERNTLY be enough to cut right through the columns. The engines of the plane, which are extremely strong and heavy, are located… yes… on the wing. This gives the wings a lot of weight.

You are clearly not a expert, in any area that is even distantly related to this matter. Not only this, you have seemed to give no proper thought into the test (or into 9/11 at all). You seem like someone who is in denial. I think most conspiracy theorists are actually bored, looking for a hobby, obsessive and want to be involved in the process of playing the detective. It gives them a meaning in life, as there lives are obviously so dull, they have to spend most there time on the internet, trying to lure people into their radical beliefs.

Conspiracy theorist, are not better then the cowards who carried out these attacks in the first place, cowards who would prefer to kill them self’s then fight in a war. You, and other people like you, are trying to move the blame away from the real criminals.

6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dumbass...

12:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

is so funny how some people are getting so defensive. If you think it is false, then disregard it from your day and carry on. Yet so many people feel they have to use an insult to discredit it. The moment you write on this, you agree that there is something worth arguing against to defend your own belief.

12:39 PM  
Anonymous grow taller 4 idiots said...

Everybody know that what the TV tells us about 9/11 it a lie

6:36 PM  
OpenID Ryan said...

The " wing retraction theory" or idea that the wings should fold upon impact is mis-founded. As we examine the world around us we find that there are times when materials bend and times when they fail to. The grass analogy was a good one. Why doesn't the grass just bend when the blade hits it? The answer simply is that if the change in direction commanded by the blade on the grass is greater than tension strength of the grass then it will separate and not fold or lay down. This works with pretty much everything. Take a plane for example. If I had a pivot point designed at the point of the wing connection to the plane allowing the wings to fold and unfold, (thats a big "if" BTW) and I ran into a column at 50 miles per hour they would probably fold. the outer tip of the wing would have to change directions from going forward at 50 miles per hour to going backwards at 50 IF the columns hit at the wings tips. This would be an instantaneous change and would damage the structure. If the column hit close to the plane and the wings were 50 feet long the wings would change direction at about 50 times that amount due to the increased distance of travel that had to be realized by the tips of the wings to accommodate the 50 MPH change in direction at the base.
it would not take much speed to "shatter" the structural integrity of the wings and separate them from the plane.

If your arms hit poles at 15 MPH, or running speed, they would probably not separate from your body. But I would not advise you to try it at 50 and especially not near your torso.

At 500 MPH the plane and its wings disintegrated upon impact. some of poles holding up the building were sheared and some badly damaged. The fire and intense heat from the crash weakened the remaining support structures as steel looses strength with temperature. Its simple...

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Grow Taller For Idiots Scam said...

I think so many people had known what the TV tells us about 9/11 it a lie

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