A Challenge
1) Obtain the Microsoft Flight Simulator Software and install it.
2) Learn to fly a Cessna 172 prop plane (if you already are a pilot, you can skip this).
3) Download and install the Boeing 767 plug-in, and take-off from Boston Logan airport.
4) Navigate to Manhattan as fast and efficiently as possible, then accelerate to 540 mph-- and on your FIRST ATTEMPT, fly perfectly through the middle of lower Manhattan, where the WTC used to be.
5) Let me know if you succeed.
If you DO succeed, also try a run taking off from Washington Dulles with a Boeing 757, going west for an hour, then turn around, and navigate to the Pentagon and try the "Hani Hanjour maneuver" (a 270 degree turn at 500 mph, then level off and approach the Pentagon on a flat approach, only a few feet off the ground.
2) Learn to fly a Cessna 172 prop plane (if you already are a pilot, you can skip this).
3) Download and install the Boeing 767 plug-in, and take-off from Boston Logan airport.
4) Navigate to Manhattan as fast and efficiently as possible, then accelerate to 540 mph-- and on your FIRST ATTEMPT, fly perfectly through the middle of lower Manhattan, where the WTC used to be.
5) Let me know if you succeed.
If you DO succeed, also try a run taking off from Washington Dulles with a Boeing 757, going west for an hour, then turn around, and navigate to the Pentagon and try the "Hani Hanjour maneuver" (a 270 degree turn at 500 mph, then level off and approach the Pentagon on a flat approach, only a few feet off the ground.
posted by spooked at 11:27 PM
30 Comments:
Where do I download the plug-in that makes the Air Force "Stand-Down"? Or was that only available to those that pre-ordered the Quadruple Gold-Pressed Latinum Collector's Edition?
You know that the terrorists missed the WTC the first time they ran thier mission in Microsoft Flight Sim too?
Why are you leaving out the fact that they practiced it dozens of times before getting it right?
Here's another challenge.
1. Crash your plane into the Earth
2. Attempt to crash another plane into the *exact* same spot.
See, it's impossible - you faked the first crash!!
I'm saying that according to the official story, the terrorists only ever piloted a 767 once, and did so perfectly. Flight sim isn't exactly like the real thing, and that is my point. What I am saying is that flying a 767 in the program is really flying a 767 for the first time. It's HARD to do it the first time.
But try piloting a 767 in the program, and you'll get a better idea of what I am talking about.
At least acknowledge the bias in your challenge. You require us to navigate to the WTC site, yet the primary visual navigation aid doesn't exist anymore. You also require us to fly a precise trajectory into the Pentagon, yet its a safe bet that Hanjour's mission was simply to hit it - anywhere.
This is the "Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy". You shoot a hole in the wall, then take a pen and make a circle around it, then tell everyone you hit the bullseye.
@brainuser
yet its a safe bet that Hanjour's mission was simply to hit it - anywhere.
then why the 270 degree turn prior to impact? if he wanted to hit in 'anywhere' he should have just descended - straight shot, no?
You require us to navigate to the WTC site, yet the primary visual navigation aid doesn't exist anymore.
So fire up M$FlightSim, jump in a 767 and fly take off from Logan, navigate to Manhattan, and fly at 540 mph into the Empire State Building. Whats the difference? Spooked's point is that flying a 767 into a predetermined target in the middle of NYC it not trival, least of all on your first attempt.
With a name like 'brainuser' one would expect you'd be using that grey matter more efficiently than this. next.
@swordofcluelessness
Why are you leaving out the fact that they practiced it dozens of times before getting it right?
A fact, eh? Then you must have a source for that claim... by all means, please share your 'source'
Why did he make a 270 degree turn? Who knows. Maybe he got lost. Apparently navigating in a 767 is quite tricky the first time.
Thank you for making th NY challenge a little more reasonable. I bet I could hit the ESB first time. But first I need to practice in a 767 simulator simulator. We're assuming the pilots had access to flight sims before attempting their mission, right? That would be the sensible thing to do.
Btw, I've tried a cesna sim, and I've tried a cesna. The real thing is way easier.
I've tried a cesna sim, and I've tried a cesna. The real thing is way easier
no doubt! but shep has it right when he says:
Spooked's point is that flying a 767 into a predetermined target in the middle of NYC is not trival, least of all on your first attempt.
but even if it were a simple matter to hit the wtc the video evidence does not really support the claim of a 767 hitting either tower. read the archives of this very blog to understand what i mean.
'flying a 767 into a predetermined target in the middle of NYC is not trival, least of all on your first attempt.'
How do you know? Because you've played a freeware mod for MS Flight Sim? Or because you've flown a 767?
brainuser, are you implying that it is trivial? or are you just being contrary?
Former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot....
an excerpt:
Concerning 9/11, Wittenberg knew right off the bat the hijackers - who couldn’t handle a Piper Cub - couldn’t fly the ‘big birds” he flew for so many years, knowing the planes were also incapable of performing such high speed maneuvers as the government claimed.
Yeah...any idiot Arab patsy can just instantly waltz into the cockpit of a modern, multi-engine jetliner (One he's NEVER BEEN IN BEFORE!!) and sucessfully fly and navigate it HUNDREDS of miles without EVER doing it before of course!....suuuuure.
What brain-dead moron actually still BELIEVES THIS GOVERNMENT'S FAIRYTALE STORY!!?
I won't presume to speak for the brain-dead morons... they seem to be doing a pretty good job of speaking for themselves...
All I have to go on is my experience being an eyewitness to 9/11 as it happened, via live TV, from 2 minutes before the plane hit the second tower thru to both towers falling.
Now, in amazement, I read as people deny their senses, refuse to come to their senses, refuse to accept the A-B-C-D order of reality as it unfolded that fateful day, and instead assert that America's government was consciously complicit in and supportive of this terrorist act.
But its your dream, have at it.
Wittenberg was a crackpot conspiracy theorist before 9/11 so I don't put much faith in his comments. Your article says he 'knew' it was a inside job the instant it happened. So no unbiased investigation there then.
And yes I do belive an arab (as if race makes a difference) can waltz into the cockpit of a plane already in flight and steer it into a building, provided he's learnt to fly in a small plane, and had some kind of conversion course to familialise himself with the 767 controls.
Why is it so hard? All they had to do was turn off the autopilot, take hold of the control column and point the plane at the target. Could you geniuses explain to me (a trainee light aircraft pilot) exactly what is so difficult about that?
In the UK years ago the gameshow The Krypton Factor required contestants from the general public to *land* and airliner in a BA simulator. They had just a brief familiarisation lesson, yet many were actually able to do it. That's landing it safely - not crashing it.
'From an airline pilot: You'd never even make it past ground school. much less pass a simulator check.'
Who wouldn't? Why would a terrorist who's siezed control of a plane need to get through ground school? Why would he need to pass a simulator check? Are you not allowed to hijack a plane without qualifications? Who regulates that?
If I've missed you point please try to be more clear.
No one wants to actually tak eme up on the challenge?
Go ahead, you all think it's easy. Do it then.
Manhattan is easy to find. You don't need the WTC to guide you. Hit the Empire State Building if you prefer.
As far as Karradine-- the whole problem is this person seems to take at face value what they saw on TV. Like that fucking means ANYTHING.
As far as the airline pilot, it is not clear WHAT the point is.
Is anyone really trying to claim flying a 767 is EASIER than the FS program? That's seems highly doubtful and goes against logic. And flying a large jet in FS is HARD.
Try it.
Karridine said...All I have to go on is my experience being an eyewitness to 9/11 as it happened, via live TV, from 2 minutes before the plane hit the second tower thru to both towers falling.
I saw aliens blow up most of the Earth on t.v., so I guess that must have really happened. I saw NORAD tracking Santa Clause on t.v. so that must have really happened. I saw talking animals on t.v. so they must really exist. I saw cultists on t.v. that said 'Aliens' taught them how to clone human beings, so that must be true.
I believe in Santa Clause, I believe in the Tooth Fairy, I believe in the Easter Bunny and I believe USAma bin Oswald is the source of ALL evil in the universe.
Get back to us when your Lithium script starts to kick in.
BrainUser said...Wittenberg was a crackpot conspiracy theorist before 9/11 so I don't put much faith in his comments. Your article says he 'knew' it was a inside job the instant it happened. So no unbiased investigation there then.
And yes I do belive an arab (as if race makes a difference) can waltz into the cockpit of a plane already in flight and steer it into a building, provided he's learnt to fly in a small plane, and had some kind of conversion course to familialise himself with the 767 controls.
Care to explain how 4 guys held off ALL the military personel on Flight 77?
Flight 77 Passengers
Or is it your view that these military people would simply sit idly by, their knees knocking & with their skivvies skid-marked, while some runt rammed their plane into the Pentagon with them aboard?
Dammit, Where was "Passenger 57" when he was really needed?
'Care to explain how 4 guys held off ALL the military personel on Flight 77?'
Hmmm, if I may respectfully say so they don't look like they're at the peak of their fighting careers. And they probably weren't armed, at they probably couldn't say, 'hey terrorists, sit down or we slash this lady's throat', or 'hey terrorists give yourselves up or we detonate a bomb.' So I'd say they were at a disadvantage. Also, obviously, they didn't realise they HAD to fight, until it was too late.
'Is anyone really trying to claim flying a 767 is EASIER than the FS program? That's seems highly doubtful and goes against logic. And flying a large jet in FS is HARD.'
Yes. Despite your doubts. Does your logic tell you that having far more sensory input will actually make flying harder?
And why are you so confident your unofficial 767 freeware mod is accurate?
Jesus. You're telling me that flying for the first time a real 767 under extreme duress is easier than a flying a 767 at home using a computer program? Please.
As far as whether the freeware 767 is accurate, go ahead and use the 737 that comes with the FS program, if it makes you feel better.
And I assume you know that many pilots train on the FS software, including the US Navy-- so it has to be fairly accurate.
Ultimately, this is only part of the 9/11 puzzle. If you wish to believe that amateur pilots who trained on Cessnas and maybe used FS software to train could navigate a real 767 that they had never flown before to NYC and then rammed full-speed on the first pass into the WTC, go right ahead.
There are only about five hundred other reasons to think 9/11 was an inside job, but if you want to cling to this particular notion, fine by me.
BrainUser said...Also, obviously, they didn't realise they HAD to fight, until it was too late.
Meet Barbara Olson,
She had reported the hijacking to her husband twice with her cell phone about 20 minutes before the plane hit the Pentagon, reportedly asking him "What should I do?".
and from the 'horse's' mouth,
She learned during those two telephone conversations that two passenger jumbo jets had already that morning been turned into instruments of mass murder at the World Trade Center. So she knew the unspeakable horror that she was facing
Obviously, you know not, that which you speak about.
Good catch, Perp!
Of course, another question is whether that phone call ever existed-- the story is so conflicted.
If you want to pick hole in the official story, it helps to know it first. We are told Olsen made the first call between 9:16 and 9:26, therefore possibly only 11 minutes before the crash. At this time we're told the passengers knew of a hijacking and were all herded in the back of the plane. She wasn't informed of the WTC attacks until the end of the second call, at which point her call was cut off. We don't know when the second call was made, but we do know that she asked her husband what she should tell *the captain* to do. Therefore, by the time she found out about the WTC the hijackers probably had control of the plane. The amount of time Olsen had to consider her fate is very unclear but almost certainly much less than 20 minutes. We also don't know if Olsen was able to tell anyone on the plane what she found out. She made her call in secret, and possibly cut off the call becuase she was about to be found out.
Given this version of events, the fact that Olsen failed to organise a success counter-attack from the back of the plane is neither surprising or unsurprising.
By contrast the UA93 passengers were able to make calls freely. They had 25 minutes to consider their fates and organise a revolt. The struggle lasted 5 and a half minutes.
'Is anyone really trying to claim flying a 767 is EASIER than the FS program'
...then...
'You're telling me that flying for the first time a real 767 under extreme duress is easier than a flying a 767 at home using a computer program?'
Hey did I just see that goalpost move?
'There are only about five hundred other reasons to think 9/11 was an inside job'
Yep, I think I did. Now I have to debunk 500 claims to win this debate, instead of just the one!
I don't need to worry though since all 500 of the CT claims are being easily challenged by people with actual brains.
"And I assume you know that many pilots train on the FS software, including the US Navy-- so it has to be fairly accurate."
WHAT????
Lord....just when I though you couldn't get any more dumb-as-shit, you go and amaze me.
Hey brainuser-- I concede nothing about my original point, I merely note that you're free to believe what you wish.
Again: "You're telling me that flying for the first time a real 767 under extreme duress is easier than a flying a 767 at home using a computer program?'"
The challenge is still there.
Kind of funny how Mr. Navy Flyboy himself (Pinch) has chosen to stay out of this argument.
Oops-- spoke to soon. Hi Pinch.
Well, that is what the program says.
Are you saying Navy pilots don't use the program, or that it is not accurate?
Like, hey man, I mean, I can't install the program, 'cause my man Jason has the computer today.
default.xbe-- well that wasn't the challenge was it?
But that's still good, assuming you did it. Were you on maximal realism and really flying?
Slew mode doesn't count.
default.xbe-- and in fact, if you practiced on a 767 before you hit the tower, that explicitly violates the challenge.
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